"Recommend some fantasy BDSMy books for me. Lesbians preferred."

[snarp]

Someone sent me this text earlier in the year. I guess I can just be assumed to know such things.

My answer was as follows. (By email.)

In response to to your text, I regret to inform you that the only perfect match to your request I can think of is Kushiel's Dart, by Jacqueline Carey.

Other possible matches below. Stuff that I recommend has an asterisk.

(It's sad that I can compile a list like this so quickly.)

No Lesbians

Transformation, by Carol Berg - Nice enlightened nature-worship guy is enslaved to bullying barbarian prince with a heart of gold. Slashy but it remains entirely subtext; may kind of make you want to kill yourself. Is a series. (Her Flesh and Spirit is exactly the same.)

Daughter of the Blood, by Anne Bishop - Has been discussed on the blog. Is hilariously bad. Is a series.

Mona Lisa Awakening, by Sunny - Has been discussed on the blog; is Daughter of the Blood fanfic with the serial numbers filed off. Hilariously bad, is a series.

Quarreling They Met The Dragon, by Sharon Baker - Two sex slave guys attempt to escape their cruel masters together. INSANELY melodramatic. Actually sci-fi.

Wicked Gentlemen, by Ginn Hale - Bitter drug-addict demon private eye guy meets earnest young inquisitor guy.

An Exchange of Hostages, by Susan R. Matthews - Idealistic young doctor is forced to become a torturer and slave-owner. Textually slashy but nothing happens; will totally make you want to kill yourself; actually sci-fi. Is a series.

Melusine, by Sarah Monette - Cruel, haughty wizard is imprisoned and tortured for a crime he didn't commit, and rescued by a thief with a heart of gold. May kind of make you want to kill yourself (though not as much so as Berg and Matthews). Is a series.

Shadowheart, by Laura Kinsale - I think there was a plot in there somewhere, and I think the plot involved pirates. Technically a historical romance, but is too insane to properly regard as such. I haven't finished it, but apparently half the RWA wanted to kick Kinsale out over this book because the girl is the dominant partner. So, obviously quality.

the Anita Blake books, by Laurell K. Hamilton - These have been described in many places. Hilariously bad.

* The Vintner's Luck, by Elizabeth Knox - An emo guy finds a (male) angel in his vineyard.

* The Winter Prince, by Elizabeth Wein - King Arthur retelling involving Mordred/non-canonical legitimate son of Arthur UST. Is a series.

* Dawn, by Octavia Butler - Sci-fi about benevolent tentacle aliens enslaving humans for their own good. May kind of make you want to kill yourself. Is a series.

* The Vor Game, Brothers in Arms, and Mirror Dance, by Lois McMaster Bujold - Part of a very long sci-fi series. Plot is difficult to describe, but involves clones. You can read just these three books, but you'd need to do it in order. Mirror Dance is the most BDSM-intensive, but you can't read it first.

Havemercy, by Jaida Jones and Danielle Bennett - Melusine fanfic with the serial numbers filed off and much less BDSM stuff. Included for completeness; it annoyed me.

Contains Lesbians

* Fire Logic, by Laurie Marks - The lost heir to the throne, addicted to a drug that is slowly killing her, finds herself walking out in a blizzard to rescue a foreign warrior woman imprisoned by her country's invaders. Contains many, many lesbians, but it may be stretching to say it contains BDSM. Is a series.

* The Privilege of the Sword, by Ellen Kushner - A girl's eccentric uncle agrees to pay off her family's debts if she'll learn swordsmanship and become his bodyguard. Contains lesbians, but no BDSM of note. Is second in a duology, but you don't need to read the first one to understand it.

Manga

the works of Kaori Yuki - It is impossible to describe any of Kaori Yuki's plots, but they are all structured around scenes in which people fiddle with chains and torture implements and declare ownership of one another. Cain Saga is set in Victorian England, if we assume that zombies were quite common in Victorian England, and also that "Jezabel" was an appropriate name for a guy back then. (It is not to be confused with Kaine, an entirely separate Kaori Yuki series which just coincidentally happens to have the same title. I should probably add that Kaori Yuki is kind of nuts.) I think that the only one with lesbians is Angel Sanctuary, which is set partly in modern-day Japan, partly in Hell, and partly everywhere else that Kaori Yuki thought might look cool.

* Saiyuki, by Kazuya Minekura - A hot Buddhist priest and three hot demon guys, all in firm possession of Tragic Pasts, go on a road trip together to save the world, and must continually rescue each other from bad guys who want to touch them inappropriately. The road trip has now been going on for thirteen years and more than twenty volumes, not including the side-series exploring their past lives together, also apparently spent rescuing each other.

* Heart of Thomas / Toma no Shinzou, by Moto Hagio - In pre-WWII Germany, a boy enrolls at an angst-ridden all-gay high school and learns that he looks exactly like a boy who killed himself for love of another boy just days before he arrived. Spoilers: Satanic torture was somehow involved. Slashy but nothing happens. Only available in scanlations.

Onii-sama e, by Riyoko Ikeda - Innocent young girl enrolls at an angst-ridden all-lesbian high school (in modern Japan, this time) and falls instantly in love with the most angst-ridden girl on campus. Only fantasy in the sense that Japan probably doesn't actually have all-lesbian high schools; may kind of make you want to kill yourself; I haven't finished it. Only available in scanlations, and I don't think the scans are complete.

-

I was later told that this request had been made on behalf of a friend who was really into Nalini Singh. So I am, like, the go-to person for when you've got a bored Nalini Singh fan on your hands. I fear for my future.

Comments

[inkstone]

Man, if someone had described Fire Logic to me the way you just did, I definitely would have picked it up sooner! WTF, people, where are your priorities?!

I think these two books by Susan Wright might also fit the bill: To Serve and Submit and A Pound of Flesh. I haven't read them so I don't know if there are lesbians but I do know these books belong to that grand tradition of publishers trying to find the next Jacqueline Carey.

[snarp]

I strongly advise reading Fire Logic and Earth Logic. Water Logic I didn't like as much, but the first two form a pretty strong arc unto themselves. Marks' Watcher's Mask is also good, though in a lot of ways it feels like a rough draft of FL and EL.

I will keep this information in mind.

[inkstone]

Hmm, I think I will have to scrounge around since it appears Fire Logic isn't available on Kindle? Dammit, people, don't make it difficult for me to give you money!

[octopedingenue]

I think Fire L & Earth L are out of print(?), since the publisher dropped her before book 3 came out, and that was before ebooks became A Viable Thing. Small Beer Press published a Water Logic ebook, though I agree I didn't like that one as much.

[inkstone]

Eh, what a pain. If I'm going to have to ahem it, that means it's going to be based on pdfs, doesn't it?

[snarp]

That is what Calibre is for! (Well, any converted version will probably be ugly if the PDF wasn't formatted neatly, but it's useful for reading on a small-screen device.)

And geez, I just looked on Amazon, and I had no idea it had gotten that expensive. I hope Small Beer's able to re-release it.

[inkstone]

Oh!

Also, Joey Hill's Vampire series. These are more paranormal erotica than fantasy but hey, if LKH is on your list... No lesbians but features femdom.

(Actually, Joey Hill's a good writer to go to for femdom in general but that wasn't really the question.)

[branchandroot]

*dying of laughter over the Kaori Yuki* It's so true; they /are/ impossible to describe.

Frankly, I would also recommend all the works of Marion Zimmer Bradley, who had more hang-ups than a coatrack and kind of took them out on her fiction. Warrior Woman and The Ruins of Isis both have plenty of lesbians and some fairly BDSM background, though not the safe, sane consensual kind. *thinks* House Between Worlds may have also, but it's been so long I can't recall for sure.

The short stories are the real place to go for up-front sexual kink, though.

[snarp]

You know, I've got no idea why I didn't put The Shattered Chain and Thendara House in there...

[branchandroot]

Yeah, when the author gives us a whole /culture/ of women who are literally chained up, and one dealing with her Issues therefrom, well...

[salinea]

I really do so wish there were more *sighs*

Mary Gentle is has some BDSM, some Lesbians, and lots of fantasy, but has yet to have all three at the same time that I remember.

I can think of several works of online fiction with lots of samesex BDSM, but few with lesbians.
Maybe you should have mentioned Loveless though, with a secondary couple who are Lesbians and a whole lot of BDSM subtext.

And then there's CLAMP, arguably, which has squirted with the theme a few times (notably in RG Veda).

[snarp]

I remember that I nearly did put RG Veda in, but felt I couldn't in good conscience recommend it - it's too hard to follow most of the way through.

[(Anonymous)]

I guess RWA must have liked SHADOWHEART ok, since they gave it the Best Historical Romance award that year. ;) Though I'll admit I was taken aback at how freaked out some readers were by a couple of pinches and some scratching.

Yes, there's indeed a plot. There's way too much plot. ;) The pirate part was minor, believe me. LOL

Laura Kinsale

[rilina]

I love your summary of Saiyuki. I may need to quote yours the next time I am called upon to provide one.

[coffeeandink]

BEST DESCRIPTION OF SAIYUKI EVER.

I may have read an enormous amount of things on your list. I shall ponder what in my vast collection of sf/f has BDSM subtext.

[smillaraaq.livejournal.com]

Personally, I always think of Anne Rice's "Beauty" books as fantasy, even if the only bit of magic we get is the fairy-tale setup at the beginning, because they are such a stew of NOTHING WORKS THAT WAY! that trying to think of them as realistic novels involving real humans just BREAKS MY BRAIN.

For more yaoi manga -- Yamane Ayano's The Crimson Spell, a medievaloid-Fauxropean high fantasy world in which a prince is forced to take up a cursed sword that transforms into a vicious and lustful demon at night, teams up with a bishie sorceror to try to find a way to lift the curse, and Sexy Magical Dubcon Bondage Hijinks ensue (along with a rather pleasantly surprising amount of plot and character development). Anyone who thinks Hakkai in his unlimitered youkai form is unbearably hot will likely find demon!Val extremely Relevant To Their Interests; this one is relatively low on the SM side of things and heavier on the BD -- there are magical chains, magic non-corporeal bondage, magic tentacles, I think there was even a magical non-corporeal cockring at one point?

(Also doesn't Higuri You tend to have a fair bit of BDSM-ey M/M stuff in her work? Ludwig II certainly did and I've heard Gorgeous Carat starts out with a rather extreme whipping scene, although neither probably counts as fantasy except via the "mangaka treats Europe like a made-up world" sort of technicality.)

For more vampires, of various orientations -- author Patrick Califia, who's noted for both non-fiction BDSM/sexuality writing and primarily-lesbian BDSM erotica, has a few interrelated short stories and one related novel that may be of interest, although some are likely to be hard to find. "The Vampire", anthologized in Daughters of Darkness: Lesbian Vampire Tales, involves some serious singletail whip play, a butch lesbian vampire top, and an aggressively seductive femme who is more than she seems; "Parting Is Such Sweet Sorrow", anthologized in Sons of Darkness: Tales of Men, Blood, and Immortality involves a switchy bisexual male vampire, there's also a seriously dark (dub/non-con, lots of potentially triggery material about past abuse and rape) lesbian piece featuring the vengeful half-sister of the protagonist of "Parting..." anthologized in Love In Vein II; both Ulric and Adolpha reappear in the later novel Mortal Companion, although the primary relationship in this one is M/F.

If you'll take sort of fairy-tale retellings as fantasy, Califia's short story "Blood and Silver" (anthologized in both No Mercy and Blood and Silver) is a BDSM version of Little Red Riding Hood as a werewolf lesbian dominatrix. I SWEAR IT'S WORLDS BETTER THAN THAT PROBABLY SOUNDS, HONEST.

I haven't yet read them myself, but Artemis Oakgrove's 1980s "Throne Trilogy" (The Raging Peace, Dreams of Vengeance, and Throne of Council is supposed to be lesbian BDSM fantasy. And for more recent works, I would very very surprised if you couldn't find at least a few lesbian-BDSM-fantasy titles in Circlet Press' back catalog, since erotic F&SF is their bread and butter.

[rachelmanija]

I realize this is recommending something of mine, but since it's only 1/15th mine... the forthcoming Steam-Powered: Lesbian Steampunk is sf (it's steampunk, so frankly a lot of it might as well be fantasy or borders on fantasy) with lesbians. I haven't read all the stories yet, but I would not be surprised if a couple contain BDSM. There's one (not mine) which contains rough sex, anyway.

http://bookelfe.livejournal.com/208116.html

I love your description of Kaori Yuki. So true!

[octopedingenue]

Crimson Spell was already my favorite [gay porn with a surpring amount of plot-relevant swordfighting] / [sword-and-sorcery with a surprising amount of gay sex] just for its Relevance To My Interests, but this was quadrupled by the appearance of the HORNYTOAD DRAGON!

There was indeed a magical non-corporeal cockring. And don't forget the sexy amnesia, the sexy amnesia sex, and the prison sex through the bars.

[smillaraaq.livejournal.com]

Oh, how could I forget the sexy amnesia, sexy amnesia sex, and sexy between-bars prison sex! I fear that TCS is Relevant To My Interests on so many fronts that my poor brain just shorted out from an overload of Relevance. (Adorable giant magical hornytoad dragons with cute widdle belled neck ribbons don't hurt, either!)

Also, while I don't recall there being any real BDSM elements, for fantasy yuri manga Heart-Pounding Excitement at Mononoke Girls' Academy is just ridiculously cute. A normal human girl heading in for her first day at a new high school makes a wrong turn and literally stumbles into a supernatural alternate dimension where she is mistaken for a new student at an all-lesbian, all-youkai boarding school. Unsurprisingly, this leads to no end of Sexy Xenokink Yuri hijinks.

[octopedingenue]

I am so sad that Crimson Spell has been licensed in English by a company that apparently has no desire to ever release it in English. But the yaoi that DramaQueen bogarted eventually got picked up again by June, so I live and I hope.

Mononoke Girls' Academy (I love this title!) is SO CUTE OMG. Some people have said they get a skeevy/leering vibe from it, and it's definitely pervy, but the cute and hilarity thoroughly charmed me, so YMMV. I am especially in love with Kiri, who is the BESTEST most sensible and good-hearted kitty-demon-girlfriend EVAH.

OH and I can't believe I forgot! Nana to Kaoru (Nana & Kaoru) has no fantasy and no lesbians, but it has All BDSM All The Time, and it is unexpectedly adorable.

[snarp]

I completely forgot Crimson Spell! I'm a failure at this, I should turn in my badge. And Gorgeous Carat actually has werewolves, if I'm thinking of the right manga, so I suspect that it would meet a Nalini Singh fan's needs.

[smillaraaq.livejournal.com]

I have not read it yet myself, but my impression via Fandom Osmosis was that Gorgeous Carat is the one involving Sexy Gentleman Jewel Thieves, homoeroticism, whips, and the usual sort of cheerful disregard for historical accuracy one generally expects in manga with 19th-century European settings? NOBODY MENTIONED WEREWOLVES TO ME, DAMNIT, YOU'RE ALL FIRED.

[octopedingenue]

There is actually a third Riverside book from Kushner, The Fall of the Kings, co-written with Delia Sherman, and it actually contains a fair amount of BDSM with an emphasis on the BD. But the book is so awful and reading it made me so angry that I cannot recommend it to anyone. I've avoided reading anything else by Sherman because she's the variable factor in the trilogy so I assign her the blame.

[snarp]

I've avoided The Fall of Kings, due to many, many negative reviews like that one. Also, because Sherman's prose style in The Porcelain Dove didn't work for me at all. Something about it was just pure antimatter.

[wintersweet]

I think people who like those things would like Fingersmith if they hadn't read it, which they probably have. (It's technically not fantasy, but two out of three ain't bad.)