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snarpAlternate Title: Norie Masuyama - The Dark Lord of Shoujo Manga?
Original text here. I'm seriously getting really curious about Norie Masuyama. (I talked about her before in this post.) In this interview Takemiya calls her "someone in Hagio's and my circle of friends" rather than "a friend," and talks about her in kind of a distant way - but from all the evidence they must have been pretty close at some point. I mean, she moved to Oizumi in part to be close to Masuyama, Masuyama got her into shounen-ai, and Masuyama was her co-author on Hensoukyoku. Did something happen there? (It's kind of paparazzi of me even to be thinking about this...)
It's kind of a funny interview, because the interviewer is really bombastic, and Takemiya keeps obliquely shooting her down. I don't think my translation really captures how hyper the interviewer comes off. I can't find her name anywhere - it'd be interesting to know if she's always like this, or it's just her reaction to getting to interview Takemiya.
There were a couple places I wasn't sure of - those are in gray text.
-
To Oizumi... - Keiko Takemiya, Creator of To Terra..., Shares her Memories of the Oizumi Salon.
August 31, 2007
A leading figure in the shoujo manga world, Keiko Takemiya, shares her memories of the women's version of Tokiwa-sou, the Oizumi Salon - the gathering place of the women who changed the world of shoujo manga, the Magnificent 49ers.
To Oizumi...
Usually, when we think about shoujo manga in the old days, the image that comes to mind is one of sparkling pupils, sparse background detail and heavy use of patterns, and flowers jumping out.
In 1970, a group of women manga artists overturned the established style and the narrow set of rules accompanying it, creating new styles and changing the face of the world of manga. When these women would come together to collaborate on their works and share dreams and passionate discussions, they would meet in one specific place. That place was the Oizumi Salon.
One of the leaders of the salon, leading shoujo manga artist and scholar Keiko Takemiya, has joined us today to share with us some of her memories.
The "Oizumi Salon"
In the 1970s, a group of young women overthrew the established male shoujo manga artists and editors. These energetic young women would gather in an apartment in Oizumi, in Tokyo's Nerimaku Ward.
The apartment's tenants were Keiko Takemiya and Moto Hagio, but other shoujo manga artists, including Shio Satoh, Nanaeko Sasaya, Yukiko Kai, and Yasuko Sakata were frequent guests there from the beginning, with discussions about shoujo manga raging day and night. The woman who gathered here would - because their birth years clustered around 1949 - be called the Magnificant 49ers, and would become the women whose works would one day form the foundations of the world of shoujo manga. For this reason, one of the leaders of the Oizumi Salon, called the women's version of Tokiwa-so, is here with us today, to pass down the history behind the shining legend of the salon.
-
Profile: Keiko Takemiya
Manga Artist / Professor of the Kyoto Seika University Manga Department
Takemiya's work was first serialized in Shogakukan's Weekly Shoujo Magazine while she was a student at Tokushima University. The next semester she moved to Tokyo to work on her art full-time. She is known for masterpieces like The Song of the Wind and Trees, To Terra..., A Variation, and Legend of Izaroon. In 1978 she won the Japanese sci-fi Nebula Award, and in 1980 the 25th annual Shogakukan Manga Award. Her manga To Terra... became an animated film in the same year. In 2001 she received the AVON Merit Award. To Terra... was adapted into a televised anime series in 2007. Her recent works include Keiko Takemiya's Manga Classroom and The Horse that Chased Time.
-
It started with a coincidence.
Though I used to live at Oizumi Academy, at the time neither I nor the locals had any idea that there'd once been something called "Oizumi Salon" there. Detailed information about the salon is very rare, both online and in published materials. So today, Ms. Takemiya will tell us about her memories of the salon and some memorable events there.
There's something really ironic about the phrase "Oizumi Salon." (laugh)
It all started when Miss Hagio and I rented one side of a row-house cut into two apartments. ("Miss Hagio": shoujo manga master Moto Hagio.) At that time I had a series in serialization and had a little money, so to be honest, I actually wanted a larger place. But there was a woman in our circle of friends, Norie Masuyama, who had a lot of big ideas - she told us that there was a row-house open just across from her house, and suggested that we move in there. The plan to live together was Hagio's, who'd only just moved to Tokyo herself, but it fit right into Masuyama's vision, too, I guess. (laugh)
I'd always lived at home with my family up until that point, so I got lonely living in Tokyo by myself. I'd started thinking, "I should get a roommate," just at the time Masuyama suggested it, so the plan struck me as providential at the time. So, that's how I wound up endorsing Masuyama's vision of a shoujo manga artist commune. *
Did you have visions of revolutionizing shoujo manga from this commune?
Miss Hagio and I definitely didn't have any grand plans like that. We were just living our lives. Miss Masuyama, on the other hand, did seem to be planning a shoujo manga revolution from the beginning. From the first time I met her, she was always talking about wanting to set up some kind of shoujo manga artist commune. But the problem was always how she was going to do this. Her first practical step was, I guess, getting Miss Hagio and me together. So it's probably really Miss Masuyama who knows the most about the Oizumi Salon.
So it was just life running its course rather than a major plan for you, then.
That's right. At first it was just the two of us, but we would get fan letters from people, and we'd invite them to come up as assistants, or we'd get to know people through our publisher and invite them over. That's how our numbers started to rise.
At the Salon's height, how many people would be there?
People were always coming and going, and we were always meeting new people, so at any given time there weren't really many of us there, but I think the most we ever had at once was ten people. But these weren't all manga artists - there were also amateurs there as assistants.
Was it a fun time?
Of course. We would have a lot of arguments about manga and things having to do with manga - people saying, "There's a problem I've been thinking about, what do you think?" We would find ourselves spending all night talking this way. When you're young, that's a great experience.
Did you ever talk about romance?
So you had a lot of serious discussions about manga. But did you ever have any of the usual kind of young adult talk, you know, talk about romance?
No, that wasn't allowed. (laugh) I don't remember anyone ever saying something like, "I like So-And-So -" We honestly only talked about manga. Of course, sometimes we'd start on manga and end up talking about movies or books or music or something.
Only discussions about work, or the stories, then. Have you been back to the place where the Salon was recently?
Just recently, I wound up going to Oizumi during the recording of a program for NHK. If I hadn't been looking carefully, though, I wouldn't have recognized the place. The area has changed a lot. I think it's something like one or two minutes' walk from the Oizumi Ozeki bus stop? The fields around Ozeki have been disappearing, but amazingly, there's one still left from back then. There's even the tall steel tower still standing it.
How did you feel about the place going back there?
I was surprised, because it seemed like the streets had gotten even narrower than I'd thought. I don't recall it as being so narrow back then.
Were there a lot of manga artists living around Oizumi back then?
At the time, yes, there were a lot around Oizumi and Shakujii. I think there still are now.
(Photo Caption: The present-day scenery in front of the Oizumi Academy station.)
At Kyoto Seika University, where you teach now, is there anything similar to the situation at Oizumi Salon, with manga artists and fledgling manga artists gathering together?
I don't really know what sort of conversations the manga department students have in their free time. But there was a case where two of the students ended up getting married. It's nice that they were able to become a couple. They've come back to school after graduation with their baby.
That's very different from Oizumi Salon, where everyone seems to have been uninterested in talk of romance. But seeing a work like that unexpectedly come about must be the greatest experience for a teacher, right?
Oh, no. (laugh) It would surprise everyone for a teacher to teach things like that. It's just one of those new experiences.
To Terra... - A work from the extremes.
To finish up, I'd like to ask you about your work To Terra..., which is being adapted for television and started airing in the spring. The viewers include both older people who recognize the phrase "Oizumi Salon," and younger ones who have never heard of you before. What sort of response are you getting?
I've been checking my site's BBS a lot recently, and the number of posts has really gone up since the show started airing. People are only talking about To Terra... - there are hardly any posts touching on other topics. I just don't feel like making any noise in there - sometimes I'll throw a stone in. (laugh)
Please tell us some of your memories about the creation of To Terra...
I considered it a very experimental work. I didn't know if it would succeed or fail - it was something done at a critical moment for me. I'm glad that it did succeed, but both emotionally and in terms of my craft I felt like I was teetering on the edge. It was something I could only have created when I was young. It was a time at which I could throw all of myself into my work.
You were pushing the limits of your strength, then.
Yes. When you're young, you can't hoard up your skill. You have to go as far as you can; you have to make things that push you the edge.
[Photo Caption: The drawing room of Takemiya's elegant home, which has the air of a "Kamakura Salon."]
[Photo Caption: Ms. Takemiya kindly drew this cute cat on a business card for me.]
Editor's Postscript
At the peak of Japan's economic growth, you could also glimpse the excitement of the manga world at the time. If you visit the former site of the Oizumi Salon, the only things left unchanged are the quiet fields. Surrounded by this scenery, Takemiya and those women who shared her life of manga dedicated all their strength to their work, giving birth to jewels that would be passed on to future generations.** As the summer sun of 2007 blazes down on these fields, I cannot help but think of the poem, "Summer grasses - all that remains of warriors' dreams." ***
-
* She literally calls Masuyama a 理論派, which basically means "theorist," and seems to carry an implication of disengagement with reality. I've seen it attached to politically extreme positions - I'm not sure if Takemiya was trying to evoke an association there or not.
** The metaphor about giving birth to jewels is not my responsibility. That business was literally in there - there is nothing I can do about it.
*** This is a haiku by Basho, of which I can't find a translation that sounds good. Also, it seems inappropriate for the subject matter!
Edited for bad grammar July 27, 2010.
Original text here. I'm seriously getting really curious about Norie Masuyama. (I talked about her before in this post.) In this interview Takemiya calls her "someone in Hagio's and my circle of friends" rather than "a friend," and talks about her in kind of a distant way - but from all the evidence they must have been pretty close at some point. I mean, she moved to Oizumi in part to be close to Masuyama, Masuyama got her into shounen-ai, and Masuyama was her co-author on Hensoukyoku. Did something happen there? (It's kind of paparazzi of me even to be thinking about this...)
It's kind of a funny interview, because the interviewer is really bombastic, and Takemiya keeps obliquely shooting her down. I don't think my translation really captures how hyper the interviewer comes off. I can't find her name anywhere - it'd be interesting to know if she's always like this, or it's just her reaction to getting to interview Takemiya.
There were a couple places I wasn't sure of - those are in gray text.
-
To Oizumi... - Keiko Takemiya, Creator of To Terra..., Shares her Memories of the Oizumi Salon.
August 31, 2007
A leading figure in the shoujo manga world, Keiko Takemiya, shares her memories of the women's version of Tokiwa-sou, the Oizumi Salon - the gathering place of the women who changed the world of shoujo manga, the Magnificent 49ers.
To Oizumi...
Usually, when we think about shoujo manga in the old days, the image that comes to mind is one of sparkling pupils, sparse background detail and heavy use of patterns, and flowers jumping out.
In 1970, a group of women manga artists overturned the established style and the narrow set of rules accompanying it, creating new styles and changing the face of the world of manga. When these women would come together to collaborate on their works and share dreams and passionate discussions, they would meet in one specific place. That place was the Oizumi Salon.
One of the leaders of the salon, leading shoujo manga artist and scholar Keiko Takemiya, has joined us today to share with us some of her memories.
The "Oizumi Salon"
In the 1970s, a group of young women overthrew the established male shoujo manga artists and editors. These energetic young women would gather in an apartment in Oizumi, in Tokyo's Nerimaku Ward.
The apartment's tenants were Keiko Takemiya and Moto Hagio, but other shoujo manga artists, including Shio Satoh, Nanaeko Sasaya, Yukiko Kai, and Yasuko Sakata were frequent guests there from the beginning, with discussions about shoujo manga raging day and night. The woman who gathered here would - because their birth years clustered around 1949 - be called the Magnificant 49ers, and would become the women whose works would one day form the foundations of the world of shoujo manga. For this reason, one of the leaders of the Oizumi Salon, called the women's version of Tokiwa-so, is here with us today, to pass down the history behind the shining legend of the salon.
-
Profile: Keiko Takemiya
Manga Artist / Professor of the Kyoto Seika University Manga Department
Takemiya's work was first serialized in Shogakukan's Weekly Shoujo Magazine while she was a student at Tokushima University. The next semester she moved to Tokyo to work on her art full-time. She is known for masterpieces like The Song of the Wind and Trees, To Terra..., A Variation, and Legend of Izaroon. In 1978 she won the Japanese sci-fi Nebula Award, and in 1980 the 25th annual Shogakukan Manga Award. Her manga To Terra... became an animated film in the same year. In 2001 she received the AVON Merit Award. To Terra... was adapted into a televised anime series in 2007. Her recent works include Keiko Takemiya's Manga Classroom and The Horse that Chased Time.
-
It started with a coincidence.
Though I used to live at Oizumi Academy, at the time neither I nor the locals had any idea that there'd once been something called "Oizumi Salon" there. Detailed information about the salon is very rare, both online and in published materials. So today, Ms. Takemiya will tell us about her memories of the salon and some memorable events there.
There's something really ironic about the phrase "Oizumi Salon." (laugh)
It all started when Miss Hagio and I rented one side of a row-house cut into two apartments. ("Miss Hagio": shoujo manga master Moto Hagio.) At that time I had a series in serialization and had a little money, so to be honest, I actually wanted a larger place. But there was a woman in our circle of friends, Norie Masuyama, who had a lot of big ideas - she told us that there was a row-house open just across from her house, and suggested that we move in there. The plan to live together was Hagio's, who'd only just moved to Tokyo herself, but it fit right into Masuyama's vision, too, I guess. (laugh)
I'd always lived at home with my family up until that point, so I got lonely living in Tokyo by myself. I'd started thinking, "I should get a roommate," just at the time Masuyama suggested it, so the plan struck me as providential at the time. So, that's how I wound up endorsing Masuyama's vision of a shoujo manga artist commune. *
Did you have visions of revolutionizing shoujo manga from this commune?
Miss Hagio and I definitely didn't have any grand plans like that. We were just living our lives. Miss Masuyama, on the other hand, did seem to be planning a shoujo manga revolution from the beginning. From the first time I met her, she was always talking about wanting to set up some kind of shoujo manga artist commune. But the problem was always how she was going to do this. Her first practical step was, I guess, getting Miss Hagio and me together. So it's probably really Miss Masuyama who knows the most about the Oizumi Salon.
So it was just life running its course rather than a major plan for you, then.
That's right. At first it was just the two of us, but we would get fan letters from people, and we'd invite them to come up as assistants, or we'd get to know people through our publisher and invite them over. That's how our numbers started to rise.
At the Salon's height, how many people would be there?
People were always coming and going, and we were always meeting new people, so at any given time there weren't really many of us there, but I think the most we ever had at once was ten people. But these weren't all manga artists - there were also amateurs there as assistants.
Was it a fun time?
Of course. We would have a lot of arguments about manga and things having to do with manga - people saying, "There's a problem I've been thinking about, what do you think?" We would find ourselves spending all night talking this way. When you're young, that's a great experience.
Did you ever talk about romance?
So you had a lot of serious discussions about manga. But did you ever have any of the usual kind of young adult talk, you know, talk about romance?
No, that wasn't allowed. (laugh) I don't remember anyone ever saying something like, "I like So-And-So -" We honestly only talked about manga. Of course, sometimes we'd start on manga and end up talking about movies or books or music or something.
Only discussions about work, or the stories, then. Have you been back to the place where the Salon was recently?
Just recently, I wound up going to Oizumi during the recording of a program for NHK. If I hadn't been looking carefully, though, I wouldn't have recognized the place. The area has changed a lot. I think it's something like one or two minutes' walk from the Oizumi Ozeki bus stop? The fields around Ozeki have been disappearing, but amazingly, there's one still left from back then. There's even the tall steel tower still standing it.
How did you feel about the place going back there?
I was surprised, because it seemed like the streets had gotten even narrower than I'd thought. I don't recall it as being so narrow back then.
Were there a lot of manga artists living around Oizumi back then?
At the time, yes, there were a lot around Oizumi and Shakujii. I think there still are now.
(Photo Caption: The present-day scenery in front of the Oizumi Academy station.)
At Kyoto Seika University, where you teach now, is there anything similar to the situation at Oizumi Salon, with manga artists and fledgling manga artists gathering together?
I don't really know what sort of conversations the manga department students have in their free time. But there was a case where two of the students ended up getting married. It's nice that they were able to become a couple. They've come back to school after graduation with their baby.
That's very different from Oizumi Salon, where everyone seems to have been uninterested in talk of romance. But seeing a work like that unexpectedly come about must be the greatest experience for a teacher, right?
Oh, no. (laugh) It would surprise everyone for a teacher to teach things like that. It's just one of those new experiences.
To Terra... - A work from the extremes.
To finish up, I'd like to ask you about your work To Terra..., which is being adapted for television and started airing in the spring. The viewers include both older people who recognize the phrase "Oizumi Salon," and younger ones who have never heard of you before. What sort of response are you getting?
I've been checking my site's BBS a lot recently, and the number of posts has really gone up since the show started airing. People are only talking about To Terra... - there are hardly any posts touching on other topics. I just don't feel like making any noise in there - sometimes I'll throw a stone in. (laugh)
Please tell us some of your memories about the creation of To Terra...
I considered it a very experimental work. I didn't know if it would succeed or fail - it was something done at a critical moment for me. I'm glad that it did succeed, but both emotionally and in terms of my craft I felt like I was teetering on the edge. It was something I could only have created when I was young. It was a time at which I could throw all of myself into my work.
You were pushing the limits of your strength, then.
Yes. When you're young, you can't hoard up your skill. You have to go as far as you can; you have to make things that push you the edge.
[Photo Caption: The drawing room of Takemiya's elegant home, which has the air of a "Kamakura Salon."]
[Photo Caption: Ms. Takemiya kindly drew this cute cat on a business card for me.]
Editor's Postscript
At the peak of Japan's economic growth, you could also glimpse the excitement of the manga world at the time. If you visit the former site of the Oizumi Salon, the only things left unchanged are the quiet fields. Surrounded by this scenery, Takemiya and those women who shared her life of manga dedicated all their strength to their work, giving birth to jewels that would be passed on to future generations.** As the summer sun of 2007 blazes down on these fields, I cannot help but think of the poem, "Summer grasses - all that remains of warriors' dreams." ***
-
* She literally calls Masuyama a 理論派, which basically means "theorist," and seems to carry an implication of disengagement with reality. I've seen it attached to politically extreme positions - I'm not sure if Takemiya was trying to evoke an association there or not.
** The metaphor about giving birth to jewels is not my responsibility. That business was literally in there - there is nothing I can do about it.
*** This is a haiku by Basho, of which I can't find a translation that sounds good. Also, it seems inappropriate for the subject matter!
Edited for bad grammar July 27, 2010.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-16 03:14 am (UTC)(Is obsessed with Kyoto, don't mind me.)Magnificent 49ers = 昭和24年組？
no subject
Date: 2010-04-16 03:23 am (UTC)Magnificent 49ers = 昭和24年組？
Yep. I keep wavering about how to translate it...
no subject
Date: 2010-04-16 06:57 pm (UTC)Oh, of course.
I hadn't heard "magnificent 49ers" before (thought that's very clever), though I have heard the "Showa 24" used in English. The latter lacks a certain pizazz, I agree.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-16 08:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-16 09:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-16 04:56 am (UTC)I mean, my natural instinct is to first assume it's only mysterious because of lack of translatable/digitized information, so when I say "someone should ask him" it's because he's someone who would have access to that kind of material to tell people if they're barking up the wrong tree, but as it stands it really presents an odd sort of fuzzy space in the history of something so influential. Then again, maybe it's just a matter of respecting her privacy? Which, while out of step with how we expect things to work these days and awfully prone to looking like it's mysterious, may just be a sign of integrity?
Christ, I'm overthinking this. I should go to sleep, I probably sound like an idiot.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-16 08:52 pm (UTC)So I don't know about actually trying to investigate any of this.